Oscillator problems.

Anything & everything relating to ENTTEC DMXIS.
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RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:18 pm

Hi guys.
I'm trying to use the DMXIS plugin's oscillator to fade down an ADJ UB9H from red to off over 2 bars at 124 bpm to coincide with a bass hit in the music. I'm using Cubase Pro 10. If I trigger the preset, the oscillator runs as it should. But, if I trigger the preset as the song is running with the corresponding midi note, the oscillator doesn't start from the beginning of its pattern. It starts part way through, as if the oscillator is locked to an internal timing in DMXIS, independent of my DAW or the midi note position. I've moved the midi note, but once again, all it does is trigger the oscillator at whatever point in it's pattern its running. Not from the start. I need start & stop control, obviously.

Can someone point out how to work around this please? It seems strange that the oscillator isn't actually turned on & off by triggering of the preset & instead runs in the background until it is activated by the midi note.

Thanks
Andrew

cgrafx
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by cgrafx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:45 am

Not really the intended use of the oscillator. The oscillator is intended for continuous repeating cyclical effects.

Instead setup two presets, one with the light on and one with the light off and a fade set to the time you need.

Steve E
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:35 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by Steve E » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:57 am

Edit for clarity:
RooMcKeller wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:18 pm
if I trigger the preset as the song is running with the corresponding midi note, the oscillator doesn't start from the beginning of its pattern. It starts part way through, as if the oscillator is locked to an internal timing in DMXIS, independent of my DAW or the midi note position...

Can someone point out how to work around this please?
I have found sending CC 110 (Tap Tempo) resets the oscillator - you only need to send it once. Give that a try and see whether it works for you.
Last edited by Steve E on Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

cgrafx
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by cgrafx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 am

Steve E wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:57 am
I have found sending CC 110 (Tap Tempo) resets the oscillator - you only need to send it once. Give that a try and see whether it works for you.
Still not the intended use of the oscillator, the light isn't just going to fade off, its going to fade back on.

RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:38 am

Thanks for posts guys. That's not what I need. The problem with DMXIS is i can only program 1 step/ preset at a time. The fade to next is a global setting for the whole preset. I can't use that when I've got other fixtures I need to program. I have 30 fixtures, including 2 sets of moving heads. There seems to be no way of programming my lights without interfering with each other. Its driving me nuts. I was hoping the oscillator would take care of the moving lights so then I could step through the presets for on-off etc.

I'll have a go at the cc#, but I've tried using midi to control DMXIS already. It gets confused & 1 cc# will start controlling multiple sliders & the other cc#'s wont do anything. I've also found that the presets will interrupt any midi command if it isn't part of the preset programming already.

This is about my 6th attempt at trying to use DMXIS because I start to program a show, only to find DMXIS falls short in some way every time. Theres too many limitations. I'm trying to find software that gives me individual & independent control over every channel. Theres a couple, like VenueMagic. But VM wont match up to a bpm grid & so you cant place the events in line with the beat of the song etc. Massive oversight.

I just think I've bitten off more than I can chew with my light show ambition. There doesn't appear to be any DMX software yet that can do what I need.

RichG
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RichG » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:24 pm

Not sure if this will do what you need, but it might be worth a try...

You could set a midi CC so it controls Osc type. When you want the light to go on, send a CC value that will set the osc type to Saw Down. When it reaches the bottom of the pattern, set the osc type to off... or you might be able to leave it as Saw Down until you don't need it to pulse any more.

Other settings to use are:
1. Fader all the way down when osc type is off.
2. Amount 100%
3. Chase 0
4. speed 2 bars
5. Shape 50%

RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:07 pm

Thanks for the post, RichG. As explained, presets override any midi information, so it can't be done. I have WAY too many fixtures. DMXIS' 'step by step' programming system is too ABC for what I need. I need individual control over each channel. I know it seems to be the way most DMX software I've tried is designed, but users need a DAW style interface, with every fixture channel on a separate track, each with it's own timeline based control parameters. So far, I haven't found one software vendor that 'gets it' & has designed DMX software like a DAW. It's so simple it's not even funny. Everyone's using DAW's nowadays. Why not lighting design software that works the same way, considering most light shows are synced to music? I'm astounded it hasn't been thought of yet. It's like we're still stuck back in the 80's.

That's all I need... a DAW style DMX control interface so I can control all channels as & when I want to. It ain't rocket science.

'Step by step' is baby language. It's ok if you only have a couple RGB lamps. I have 4 sets of moving heads!

I'm going to have to put my ideas on the shelf for now. DMXIS ceratinly can't do what I need, anyway.

Thanks though...

cgrafx
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by cgrafx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:40 pm

RooMcKeller wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:38 am
Thanks for posts guys. That's not what I need. The problem with DMXIS is i can only program 1 step/ preset at a time. The fade to next is a global setting for the whole preset. I can't use that when I've got other fixtures I need to program. I have 30 fixtures, including 2 sets of moving heads. There seems to be no way of programming my lights without interfering with each other. Its driving me nuts. I was hoping the oscillator would take care of the moving lights so then I could step through the presets for on-off etc.
Yes, but when needed a preset can literally control just a signal DMX channel (channel masks are your friend).

If you need to control a subgroup of DMX channels (just your front lights, or back lights or a single light or a single channel on a light), you do that with masking. So create two presets that control the light on to off and fade between them. You need to make sure other lighting presets that occur during your fade also are set to mask the light that is fading.

If you really need to have more tightly coupled control, then simplest way to do that is going to be with backing tracks (could just be a click track) and software like ShowBuddy to trigger your lighting cues.

If ShowBuddy and (DMXIS or ShowBuddyActive) doesn't give you the control you need then you may have to jump to a more advanced software package, but when you get to that level of show design there is no magic bullet and its going to be a huge investment in programming time.

RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm

Hi cgrafx,
But my problem is, 2 presets can't exist/run at the same time. This is DMXIS' limitation. I totally understand channel masking, but I need to program multiple presets to run at the same time. If I want to move moving heads slowly, all I have is the fade to next function. I can't automate them to do this with a step by step process. Just fade to next. This will interfere with any flashing light presets I have created. The flashing lights won't switch straight way, they will fade into the next preset. I've tried everything, nothing works. I get about 1 minute into my programming & face another limitation. Side by side programming of multiple fixture channels is the only way to go.

I just can't find any software that can do this yet. It's driving me nuts. Surely I'm not the only guy in the world that has thought of this yet?

Andrew.

RichG
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RichG » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:52 pm

RooMcKeller wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:50 pm
If I want to move moving heads slowly, all I have is the fade to next function.
Probably just tip of the iceberg for what you're trying to do... but maybe adjust the movers' Pan/Tilt speed settings (Ch 5 on a ADJ Intimidator 255 IRC)?

As for other products, I don't use ONYX (Formerly MPC), but a lot of people do. I watched several vids and it seems to be more flexible compared to DMXIS, but more difficult to program/use.

cgrafx
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by cgrafx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:17 pm

In order to have that level of control you'll have to use something like Ableton and a click track.

You can do direct lighting control assignments anywhere in the timeline.

Keep in mind that DMX is a very slow protocol so try to keep things as simple as possible.

As a strategy I'd try and use presets as much as possible and only do direct lighting calls where necessary as things get complicated really fast.

RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:25 pm

As explained previously, DMXIS gets confused with midi CC# commands, I've tried it in my DAW, Cubase 10 Pro. I tried assigning a midi CC# to each channel, but by the time I'd done that, the only CC# that worked was the first assignment, which then controlled ALL of the channels at once & none of the other commands worked.

I'm slowly going mad... lol

RichG
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:19 am

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RichG » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:37 pm

RooMcKeller wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:25 pm
I'm slowly going mad... lol
Yes, Programming lights can be quite maddening. Many times it's an "Alls I wanna do is... " scenario. I often find myself abandoning my original thought process to adapt to the limitations of the program.

RooMcKeller
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by RooMcKeller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 pm

Not to be a traitor, but the creator of LightJams has been working with me today to assign midi CC# & note on-off data to control each channel of my fixtures. Although LightJams' screen layout was completely alien to me at first, I've assigned CC# data to RGB sliders on my first fixture. It gives users complete control over their fixtures using pretty much any data input source. LightJams is definitely the platform for what people like me need.

Now, I can control RGB mixing from a Cubase automation track, completely in sync with the song, independently from all the other DMX channels.

All I need to do is add my fixtures in LightJams, assign data from Cubase to control each channel, save it all as a project & create my light shows from within Cubase.

Headaches over. Now for the fun part...

Thanks for your help though guys. I agree DMXIS is a great bit of kit. It's just too basic for my particular needs.

Onwards & upwards!
Andrew

cgrafx
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Oscillator problems.

Post by cgrafx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:19 pm

No disrespect to DMXIS implied, its a fantastic tool, but like all tools has its sweet spot and its limitations.

No point in trying to force a hammer to be a screwdriver or a screwdriver to be a hammer.

Right tool for the job.

Good luck with LightJams, hope that works out and leaves you with a few less gray hairs. ;)

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