Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

kmckaskle
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Location: Ruston, LA

Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by kmckaskle »

A little background -

Lighting rig consists of:
60 incandescent dimmers
8 Martin MH6 CT
8 Martin MH1 Profile Plus
4 Martin MH5
12 ADJ Inno Color Beam
24 ADJ Mega Tri64 Profile

Running D-Pro on a MacMini with 16 gb ram, 2.3 ghz Intel Core i5.

I've been using D-Pro now for a while, and this past weekend ran a show that called for cue lists. In setting up the cues lists, built cues in a more-or-less sequential way. In building the cues, I was careful to only apply the palettes I was using to the needed fixtures to avoid redundant data being sent out. When making quick cue changes (either 0 sec. or .1 sec) There is a very noticeable blink in the lights. Strangely enough, it's not happening on all of the "flap" cues in the list. Am I doing something wrong? Is my computer simply not fast enough?

As for the jerky movement, it's mainly isolated to the ADJ Into Color Beams. Anytime I have a cue/position fade longer than 1 second, the lights jerky and stutter to their position. They do have 16 bit movement, so that shouldn't be the issue. Also when using basic position cue changes, they move completely smoothly. Just not inside of a cue list.

Any help with these issues would be great.
Dave Brown [admin]
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

What version of D-Pro are you using? There was a known issue some time ago with blinking during cuelist execution, but it was fixed.
Dave Brown - db audioware
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kmckaskle
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:07 pm
Location: Ruston, LA

Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by kmckaskle »

Running the most recent release, 1.7.

Maybe also helpful, I'm using the spacebar as my trigger to move to the next cues.
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

Are you transmitting to a USB-DMX box, or to Art-Net?

Do you also see the glitches in the D-Pro output window?

If you switch to Art-Net output, can you see the glitches with the ArtNetMon utility? (Download ArtNetMon here)
Dave Brown - db audioware
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kmckaskle
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by kmckaskle »

I'm using the Enttec DMX USB Pro mk2, using both universes. I don't have any ArtNet devices. There doesn't appear to be any blinking in the DMX output window though.

It's only happening on a select few cues now that I've gone back and looked at it. The strange thing is that I've got 2 cues that happen twice back to back in a cue list. They happen like this:

Cue 1, 0s fade time, 0s hold time, 2s fade out, into cue 2 (2s fade in time, 2s hold, 0s fade out time), then wait for trigger to play cue 1 again, fading into cue 2 as before, same cue fade/time properties.

The blink only happens the first time the "flash" cue runs, and is only happening on the Martin MH 6 CT and ADJ Into Color Beam fixtures. Both of the cues being used have the exact same shutter settings on the fixtures. Only the dimmer channel should be changing.

I'm going to go back and triple check the cues as they are, to see if there's anything that might be throwing things off.

Any ideas on the jerky movement in the Inno Color beams?
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

kmckaskle wrote:I'm going to go back and triple check the cues as they are, to see if there's anything that might be throwing things off.
OK, let us know how you get on.
Any ideas on the jerky movement in the Inno Color beams?
Email your D-Pro show file to me (dave@db-audioware.com) I'll take a closer look. Just let me know what exact cue transitions cause the stuttering.
Dave Brown - db audioware
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kmckaskle
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by kmckaskle »

Thanks for the help Dave. Isolated the jerky movement to a certain fixture, so I'm working with the manufacturer for a solution.

As for the blinking issue, I think I may be on to something. Anytime I move from one cue to the next that has carry-over data, the cruelest is still trying to fade between two identical values. For instance,I made two cues with a single incandescent dimmer, both at 100% (255). When I place them in a cuelist back to back, I can see the DMX value change from 255 to 254 during the crossfade. I can really see where this might cause issues with positional data and shutter/strobe data, since those can be so precise that even a single dmx value up or down can change what the light thinks it should be doing.

I figured it would be common practice in building cuelists to have cues build on each other. Like having just one light up at the beginning, and then having another cue add in three more lights (for example), without altering the level of the original light. Is this right?

Again, thanks for your help.
APT Tech
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by APT Tech »

I've had no end of difficulties along those lines @kmckaskle, with consecutive cues having the same light fixtures. The cross-fading does not work well at all if you go from a cue containing say channel 1, 3, and 5 at 100% to a new cue with 1, 3, and 7 at 100%. What should happen is 1 and 3 are not touched, 3 fades down, 7 fades up. What actually happens is that 1 and 3 start to fade down then fade back up, VERY distracting.

Now, I should be clear that I'm doing this in Show Control with MIDI interface. I'm not using Cuelists, but I expect it would behave the same way.

If I'm personally programming a show, I just create a cue for channels 1 & 3 - then a separate one for 5, and a separate one for 7. I bring up 1/3 and 5 (2 cues). Then at the change, I fade out 5 and fade in 7, and leave the 1/3 cue running. Works like a champ but it's a LOT more work and if it's one of the new guys (or the old guys, who are more used to an actual light board) they do NOT get the concept. They'll create a single cue for each scene and then wonder why the whole stage is pulsing on every switch. For those I do a 2-second fade in of the old cue, THEN a 2-second fade-out of the original cue to eliminate that. Not quite what I'd like but it looks a heck of a lot better than the "Pulse".
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

APT Tech wrote:The cross-fading does not work well at all if you go from a cue containing say channel 1, 3, and 5 at 100% to a new cue with 1, 3, and 7 at 100%. What should happen is 1 and 3 are not touched, 3 fades down, 7 fades up. What actually happens is that 1 and 3 start to fade down then fade back up, VERY distracting.
Put the two cues into the same Show Control radio group. Then you'll get correct cross-fading behaviour.

When you have independent cues (i.e. cues not in the same radio group) Show Control doesn't do cross-fading. It mixes the dimmer & colour channels using HTP (highest takes priority). This is why you see the levels "dip" when transitioning from one cue to another.
Dave Brown - db audioware
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APT Tech
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Re: Cue list blinking between cues, and jerky movement.

Post by APT Tech »

Dave Brown [admin] wrote:Put the two cues into the same Show Control radio group. Then you'll get correct cross-fading behaviour.
Dave, it doesn't appear that Radio Groups are supported on submasters, only on buttons. So what I need to do then, is set up my cues into buttons and set the fade in / fade out times on those buttons - then put all the buttons into a radio group. Then just turn on each button as needed via MIDI (no need to turn off, since they're in a radio group that will happen automatically).

That could fix a lot of our issues. We do still have the problem of long cues - e.g. in the current play we've got a 2-minute fade-in that we're controlling with a MIDI fade from 0-127 over two minutes. Can't do that with a button currently, since the button is limited to a 60-second fade. I know, I could load it into a cuelist then set the cuelist to a button. You've mentioned that the next revision will move that limit up to 10 minutes, any thoughts on when that might come out?
Eva Gutierrez Alonso
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2021 3:01 pm

Martin lamp flickering fade cuelist

Post by Eva Gutierrez Alonso »

Hello,
im having a similar issue with a RUSH PAR RGB 2 from Martin.
When i do a fade in and fade out from the Show control panel there is no problem. As soon as i put the same cues in a cue list it flackers while fading. Because of a theater show and a button trigger i need to use a fader with a go buttom.
Can you provide a solution? The other led lamps that im using are fading perfectly fine.
Thanks a loT!
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