Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

SOONAGO
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:30 pm

Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by SOONAGO »

Hey folks!

I have a really strange problem with Ableton and DMXIS.
First of all: I'm using DMXIS and Ableton now for at least 2 years successfully.
So, I now basic Ableton and DMXIS setups and like I said - everything 'was' working ..

I have multiple lights, some are running with one DMXIS instance, some are running separately with DMXIS instances on their own.
Old projects (Ableton 10) are running fine, all lights are responding and working great.
In newer (or copied) projects I have this strange behavior: Everything works until I restart (close and open) the Ableton project.
After that, only one light is responding (and working) and all others are literally dead - until - I manually move their Makros to set a few values and then they are responding.

I can reproduce this on multiple/different machines with the same projects.
Windows, Mac - doesn't matter. Ableton 11 Intro + DMXIS 1.7.2.

The thing is: I have working projects - and even I save all settings as templates or user libraries, it does not work in new projects.
I can even mix working and non-working lights in one big project (Session View to control lights per song).
So, it's not per se broken or working - but something in the pipeline is acting weird and definitely not right.

Any ideas? ... I'm out of any ideas.

So long!
Niklas
kkinerk
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:55 pm

Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by kkinerk »

Any progress on this? I am just getting started switching from Showbuddy to Ableton Live 11 for lighting control. I am using the VST plugin for DMXIS. I am sending midi notes on channel 15 and 16 to the DMXIS plugin to switch banks and presets. This works most of the time, but I am seeing inconsistent behavior. Haven't been able to identify the issue yet. I tried using DMXIS standalone (instead of the plugin) and using Loopmidi to interface Ableton to DMXIS. This worked, but the behavior was the same. That leads me to believe something strange is going on in Ableton.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Dave Brown [admin]
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Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

It could be that Ableton is shutting down processing of the VST when it sees silence at the plugin input. Some hosts do this to improve CPU load. This would cause random problems in DMXIS, as it requires an audio input stream for sync purposes.

It most often happens when you patch DMXIS into a send/return type track, which is not receiving audio from the other tracks.

The easiest solution is to patch DMXIS into the master FX track.
Dave Brown - db audioware
Author of Show Buddy Setlist | Show Buddy Active | ArtNetMon
kkinerk
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:55 pm

Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by kkinerk »

Thanks Dave! I will try that out and let you know.
kkinerk
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Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by kkinerk »

An Update...

I tried running audio to the Ableton return track where I have the DMXIS plugin attached. This did not work for me.

I found that if I keep the DMXIS Plugin window open (note: you need to hit "configure" in the DMXIS Plugin to open this), everything works as expected. I also found that you can toggle whether the plugin window(s) are visible using Ctrl-Alt-P (Windows PC). Everything continued to runproperly after hiding the DMXIS plugin window. If I close the DMXIS plugin window using the "X" in the DMXIS plugin window upper right corner, then the lights do not work properly.
RichG
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Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by RichG »

I just got Studio One Artist 5 and Ableton Live Intro 11 and have started down the path of DMXIS automation. I noticed some latency/jitter issues so I set up a few tests. The first test alternated between two DMXIS presets at 120 BPM while playing a click. The presets control the dimmer of a single fixture. One preset is 100% on, the other is off so in theory, the light should blink On/Off in time with the click. The second test had a variable tempo map where it would jump to different tempos every 10 seconds or so. I also did extensive testing of different Midi routings using LoopMidi, rtpMidi, LoopBe, MidiHub, and Bome's Midi Translator.

I found Ableton Live 11 appears to be off. By that I mean it's out of sync with the click just enough to be annoying. Same result if I use VST plugin or the stand-alone. Studio One is pretty close to being in sync with the click.

I've tried reducing the audio buffer size in Ableton. This helps with the jitter, but not the sync.
Last edited by RichG on Thu May 12, 2022 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
kkinerk
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Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by kkinerk »

The testing you did was a great idea. I have also been seeing inconsistent timing between Ableton and dmxis. I am in there process of programming my light show and have a gig Friday. I will update if I figure anything out.
RichG
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Re: Ableton and DMXIS are not always working (detailed report)

Post by RichG »

Here's a test I did to quantify what I'm seeing. A lag between when the click sounds and when the light turn on can clearly be seen in the Ableton Live data. With Studio One the click and light turning on happen almost simultaneously.
Latency.png
I should note that the computer running DMXIS was the same in both cases. I used different computers to run Ableton and Studio One. The computer running Ableton has DMXIS on it. The audio is ASIO connected to a Behringer X32 Rack.

So, Computer 1 is: Ableton into DMXIS.

Computer 2 is on the same network as Computer 1.
Computer 2 is Running Studio One. To get the Midi commands from Computer 1 to Computer 2 I'm using rtpMidi on both. Id expect to see more latency in the Studio One test because of the path the Midi data has to take to get to DMXIS on the other computer. The test results show that is not the case.

Edit: I found a work around. I set the Track Delay of the Midi Track ins Ableton to -160ms. It's not 100% accurate all the time, but it's noticeably better.
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