DMXIS oscillator timing

Krikket
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DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

I'm new to lighting, so this has been an adventure so far!! I'm having an issue with the oscillator. I have certain lights i want to saw down (to the beat, time fade outs, etc). The problem is that whenever the oscillator starts, it doesn't seem to start directly at the top (saw down). It starts at like 30 or 40, ramps down and then starts its cycle. This creates a problem when trying to sync to a beat. It also creates a "glitch" between presets. Any suggestions?
Dave Brown [admin]
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

The 'saw down' oscillator definitely starts at the top of the saw. So by default, it should track the beat perfectly. Perhaps you need to manually force the "Chase" value to zero for the affected channels. (Chase controls the "start position" of the waveform)

Simply select the desired channels, then drag the Chase knob up & back down so it reads 0.0.
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Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

Ok. It only seems to happen in any preset that has timing set at 3/4 bar.
Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

Nope, it's still happening on a few oscillator patches, strangely not all of them. i'm guessing that I'm missing something....
OUTLAW
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by OUTLAW »

What are your oscillator settings on the affected channels
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Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

Affected channel settings are:
Type- Saw Dn
Amount- 50%
Chase - 0.00
Speed- 3/4 bar
Shape- 50%

Sound tracker is at 0, Channel is enabled, Invert is off. The lights are Chauvet slim PAR 64. I can watch the glitch happen on the console, but strangely enough, it's only certain presets regardless of location (different bank)
OUTLAW
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by OUTLAW »

Cant replicate any problem here, do you have your fade between presets set to zero ?

use the attached macro to look at all values of a channel that works against one that doesnt, it might shed some light of whats causing the error ... you'll need to open the macro reporting window to see the output.
Attachments
channel info.zip
channel info macro
(553 Bytes) Downloaded 329 times
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Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

Fade settings for the affected presets are set to zero... including the presets before and after.

I loaded the macro and the only thing I found was that the 50 translates to between 126 and 130. Tried adjusting, but it didn't help. I did notice that it seems to be present when used as a VST plug in as opposed to running stand alone. Here is a video of the glitch in action.
https://youtu.be/LVRsvXycm50

FYI, I uninstalled v 1.4.3 and installed 1.5.1 which didn't help. I am running Windows 8.1, Reaper v 5.01 (latest)
OUTLAW
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by OUTLAW »

Beats me !! Only thing I can think of is that since your running a plugin the tempo is tracked from Reaper, is the tempo in Reaper steady for the duration of the song ? , have you tried running in standalone mode to see you get the same problem.
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Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

Is there a way to send midi signals from Reaper into the unit stand alone without using DMXIS as a vst plugin?
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JnTuneTech
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by JnTuneTech »

Krikket wrote:Is there a way to send midi signals from Reaper into the unit stand alone without using DMXIS as a vst plugin?
Your MIDI routing options depend on the MIDI ports you have available in your system. Basically, if you can set a MIDI out port from Reaper, that can then be patched to an in port that DMXIS can see, you may use that as a choice.

On my systems, I have been using DMXIS standalone at the same time and on the same machine as my DAW for some time now. To route MIDI between the two apps, I currently use a utility called LoopMIDI (do a Web search for it), which allows me to create a software MIDI port, which I use for routing out of the DAW track(s) and into the MIDI in port set in DMXIS. This works well (on Win7, x64) for me so far, and eliminates the need for using physical ports and cabling, etc. You might give that a try, or one of several other similar utilities out there like that as well. -I hope that helps! -Jn-
Aaron
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Aaron »

I have a very similar issue. In my case I am not taking any tempo inputs and DMXIS is the master. For my scanners I have 2 banks of presets for pan and tilt (separate with the opposite masked). This allow me to control them independent of each other. I have about a dozen presets in each bank that have a sine oscillator with beat values ranging from 128 bars down to 1/8th. I have also found that when I switch to a new preset the values are reset, in my case 100 (255). This is particulary annoying when a tilt is moving down slowly and you want it pick up some speed so you select a faster preset (faster bar speed) and the values jump up to 100 again.

It seems to me that there is a static value of the channel saved with the preset and the oscillator has no effect on this. I think this makes sense some sense but a solution just came to mind while typing this.

If the OSC value is the only thing changing in the preset then mask all other values, simple right? Trying it now...
Krikket
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Krikket »

JnTuneTech, I followed your suggestion and it worked. Unfortunately, I had to completely rearrange all of my presets and bank layouts which also means I had to re-address all of the automated presets and put them into separate banks so I can control tempos. So (I'm guessing) it's either a VST/VSTi issue, or a compatibility issue with Reaper. There is also a HUGE latency issue between my DAW and DMXIS (standalone). Fortunately there is a plugin called ReaInsert that will automatically compensate. Now I can start growing back the hair I ripped out over this!! lol
OUTLAW
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by OUTLAW »

Krikket

Ive figured out your problem :-) and some things that I didnt know before too ....

in VST mode, the oscillator value is being transfered across to the new preset, and the position of the fader (with no oscillator applied) has a profound difference on the final effect.

To reproduce set the following...
Preset 1 has fader 1 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%
Preset 2 has fader 2 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%
Preset 3 has fader 3 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%

now using Reaper set the tempo to something real slow, and manually send the midi note to change preset (open midi editor and just click on the keyboard), you'll notice that the new preset saw starts exactly where the old preset saw was interupted. Its this functin that was causing your problem, your preset was changing before the fader had fallen to zero thus the new preset started from that point not from the top !!

If you run DMXIS in stand alone mode the oscillator seems to restart on each change of preset !! Dave to comment if this is intended ?

I can see the advantage of have the oscillator pass its current value over, say you are panning a moving head and want a change of colour, the head direction would continue instead of flicking back the start position ..... but I would have thought that the operation between VSTi and Standalone should be consistant !!

As to the position of the fader, it would seem that this determines the halfway point of the oscillation, and the Amount then amplifies or attenuates that oscillation, a value of 50% with the fader set to halfway gives a full range oscillation, any more than 50% and you overdrive the oscillation and get flatspots in the faders movement, as you do also by moving the fader off the center spot with 50% Amount.
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JnTuneTech
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by JnTuneTech »

Krikket -

Sorry to hear you have latency with the DAW-to-DMXIS-standalone connection. My systems have shown no such problem. But, all these connections work differently between different DAWs, MIDI and audio drivers. Maybe I just got lucky.

One other thing to note - you could also decide to MIDI control the tempo via NRPN (or CC) messages from your tracks (instead of using the tempo saved in your presets, for instance), and if so, just remember the Bank Tempo is the primary BPM, while the Speed (setting from the Oscillator control) works as a fraction, or offset if you will, of that. Took me a while to get that working myself.

Though I suppose that might be too much trouble in most cases, in fact I myself usually just rely on saving the tempo with the Banks and Presets most of the time too. -But, if you have the time & patience to program the MIDI controls, it's nice that you can just specify that from each place in your projects where you so desire, and just re-use presets as needed... Though I can't say if that would change any of the problems regarding the positions of the waveforms after changing presets that you are fighting. -? Tough one there. -Jn-
Aaron
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Aaron »

Has anyone (OUTLAW) come up with a way to overcome the issue with changing presets resting the oscillator value?

Imagine a preset that has the pan on a sine at 100% with a tempo 120 and beat @ 1/4. It will move across the full range.
Change the preset where everything is the same except the beat (say 1 bar to be slower) and the fader position will get reset and "jump" to another value.

Any way to avoid the "jump" in position? I haven't found any way to control the start position of a fader when there is an OSC set on it too.
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by NCN »

OK, I experimented with this just a bit and it takes careful setup to make it work the way you want.

First of all, it helps to begin by using "Macro-Disable All Channels"

Now click on the faders you want to participate in the chase and set them to their starting positions (most people probably set each to halfway up). Now adjust the OSC controls to get the chase you want. Observe the "Amount" controls the fader range each side of the starting position.

Create the preset using "New"

I presume the goal of the next preset is to just change the beat. So you will see your chase running and its faders are "bright" while all the others are still "dim" because you disabled all the channels.

Here is the tricky part: you have to "Select" each of the channels in the chase even though they appear "bright". You do this by CNTR-Clicking on each fader so that the blue "selection" line appears on all of them simultaneously. (Don't worry that they are still moving). Now adjust the beat. Then write the "New" preset.

What's going on here is that normally all something needs to be is "bright" to be included in a preset, but it needs to be "Selected" to take on OSC values ... except apparently just after a Disable All in which just clicking on a fader "Selects" it and makes it eligible for OSC.

As far as the jumping goes, this might because each preset you created might have been from a standing start. So when you hit the preset it always goes to the initial position and then runs. As you can see above, it's possible to "inherit" a running chase and modify it on the fly ... everything runs smooth then.
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by Aaron »

@NCN

Thanks for the work up. I'll give it a try and let you know. Hope it's as simple as setting the right start point and re-selecting the faders in the OSC chase for each preset. That would be awesome.
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by NCN »

I suppose I should describe my understanding of "selection" and enabled-disabled ... if what I think is right then what Dave has done makes a lot of sense even if it is a bit nuanced.

A couple of "rules to live by" are: (1) clicking on a dim (disabled) fader causes it to be be bright AND selected. (2) Running a preset clears all selections. (3) Anything that's "bright" gets saved in a preset.

Creating a preset should usually start with Macro-Disable All and then clicking on faders you want to change, setting up OSC's and then performing a "New". One subtlety is clicking on a fixture's control channels even if they aren't changing to ensure they are in the state you want. For example, if you want to set a particular RGB value on, say, a 7-CH fixture that also has color macros you need to also click on that macro channel to set the macros to OFF. A lot of times these odd control channels get "left behind" in other presets and they cause endless grief if you don't look after them.

Another subtlety is setting up chases if they don't comprise the whole of the preset (in other words, there are chasing faders and fixed faders (which include "control" channels) in the same preset). In this case you also need to go back and CNTR-Click each chase fader to get a blue bar on it to ensure that JUST THOSE faders are affected by OSC values. So in our 7-CH example above you would probably click on the RGB's and the macro channel and probably the remaining 3 channels, too, then go back and CNTR-Click on the RGB's to setup the chase. The new preset would now comprise the moving chase and the fixed position control channels.

Modifying a preset first involves clicking on the preset, then moving fader positions, clicking on new faders to add them to a preset, and CNTR-Clicking faders and then running Macro-Disable Selected to remove them. Finally, do an "Overwrite" to burn-in the changes.

When changing chases observe that a particular preset can have multiple OSC's going at all different settings. Therefore when modifying the preset it sort of makes sense that you need to "re-Select" the particular fixtures you want to modify and which ones you want to leave alone. So loading the preset makes everything "bright", then CNTR-Click just those chasing faders you want to modify. Now, anything with a blue bar running through it will get the new OSC values. Other running chases are unaffected. Fixtures can be added or removed from a chase by careful clicking, CNTR-clicking and macros ... this can be fairly frustrating if done in the wrong order!

And of course, watch out for "Fade to Next" and all the other knobs (excluding the masters). They never get "bright", but they are always included in a new or modified preset.
DaysofAbuse
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Re: DMXIS oscillator timing

Post by DaysofAbuse »

OUTLAW wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:50 am Krikket

Ive figured out your problem :-) and some things that I didnt know before too ....

in VST mode, the oscillator value is being transfered across to the new preset, and the position of the fader (with no oscillator applied) has a profound difference on the final effect.

To reproduce set the following...
Preset 1 has fader 1 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%
Preset 2 has fader 2 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%
Preset 3 has fader 3 set to 50%, Saw Dn, 50%, 0, 1 Bar, 50%

now using Reaper set the tempo to something real slow, and manually send the midi note to change preset (open midi editor and just click on the keyboard), you'll notice that the new preset saw starts exactly where the old preset saw was interupted. Its this functin that was causing your problem, your preset was changing before the fader had fallen to zero thus the new preset started from that point not from the top !!

If you run DMXIS in stand alone mode the oscillator seems to restart on each change of preset !! Dave to comment if this is intended ?

I can see the advantage of have the oscillator pass its current value over, say you are panning a moving head and want a change of colour, the head direction would continue instead of flicking back the start position ..... but I would have thought that the operation between VSTi and Standalone should be consistant !!

As to the position of the fader, it would seem that this determines the halfway point of the oscillation, and the Amount then amplifies or attenuates that oscillation, a value of 50% with the fader set to halfway gives a full range oscillation, any more than 50% and you overdrive the oscillation and get flatspots in the faders movement, as you do also by moving the fader off the center spot with 50% Amount.
Hi,

Thanks everyone for the information. I've been banging my head against a wall because of this effect. I'm not sure I can understand everything you guys said yet though

I bought DMXis one month ago and I'm programming a couple of led bars to be triggered from Cubase and follow the beat (I use it as a VST). That thing with the fader position being transfered to the next time the preset is triggered is driving me nuts.

It would be good to know how to make both things happen at your convenience: having a transition between presets so it doesn't glitch when I need it to be soft; and no transition at all, just the preset starting as it was programmed.

What I surely don't want is a preset starting where it finished the last time the same preset was triggered

Is there any way to make this happen? You can't imagine how much an answer would help me.

Thanks
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