Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

c3075210
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Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by c3075210 »

Hi. Looking for some help. Fairly new to using ableton live with dmxis. I have set up scenes and then playing in a midi note triggering a scene which is working fine. However was wanting to do fade in and fade outs

Can anyone help.

Thanks.
sixstringking
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by sixstringking »

I would also appreciate anyone's input on this.
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JnTuneTech
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by JnTuneTech »

Fading in and out is a rather general function, but can be accomplished so many different ways with each fixture and programming setup. Since there is no real "one button" approach, an answer here could only be one example among many, and thus may not work for you. This being said...

I happen to approach the subject from 1 of 2 angles when using DMXIS. Either 1) - Create presets that sequentially fired achieve your desired effect(s), and fire those presets via MIDI notes, and/or 2) - Map MIDI control messages from your DAW/Controller to channels in DMXIS, and achieve your desired effects in that way.

Between the two methods of control (or a combination of both), and the options available in DMXIS, quite a few creative ways to fade in or out can be made.

In the first post a mention of using MIDI notes to fire presets is given. In that scenario, -for example: One could create one preset with lights "on", and one preset with lights "off" [NOTE: -In this example, using DMXIS set up with correctly mapped fixture library instances for each fixture, and with the fixtures having literally dim-able control functions for the lights - is required-]. With all prerequisites being fulfilled, a simple "fade" could be created by using the "Fade To Next" control in the DMXIS Presets/Banks window, and applying the desired timing to effectively fade from one preset to the other - in this example from on to off, or vice-versa. Basic but effective, and I have used it many, many times.

That would be one basic example, but again, the options are dependent on your fixtures, setup, and of course your creativity! -Jn-
mts17116
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by mts17116 »

Hi, I'm new as well. I've put DMXIX FX in a "return" channel and can map any of the DMX channels to midi by creating a midi instrument and building Note ON events. I can manage the length of time of each event by increasing the note type (half note has double the length of time on as a quarter, for instance)

BUT I'd like to be able to modulate the level within that note, for example say I assign at "note on" a velocity of 90 and at "note off" a value of 45. Any idea how to accomplish this? I'd like to shift colors smoothly by changing RGB (A,W,UV !!!) ratios dynamically. I understand I could send a ton of very short notes together and set different velocities for each, but this seems clunky.

BTW , Are there other midi parameters that can be automated to do this smoothly?
(Actually, it would be cool to know if DMXIS responds/or not to any standard midi messages? Pitchbend comes to mind :D )

Any and all advice is welcome as I'm just starting to build the light show and so restarting with a new approach is not too time consuming.

Thanks in advance!

Mike
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JnTuneTech
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by JnTuneTech »

I personally have no experience using notes to control anything other than Preset and Bank changes in DMXIS. In my setups, additional control of the faders & knobs in DMXIS is done by mapping MIDI CC to the desired elements, and creating a track, or several tracks, of MIDI control changes in my DAW to automate those elements very tightly in time with my backing tracks.

The same could be done with automation envelopes, curves, etc. in tracks or lanes (Depending on your DAW & preferences) when using the VST plugin of DMXIS. And you can then still map the MIDI CC as above, and send changes to the plugin via a MIDI track as well, or exclusively, whatever suits your needs. The setup and methods differ slightly between various DAWs and their VST implementation.

In most cases, I prefer to use DMXIS Presets and Banks for most of the "heavy lifting", and by adding the fade to next function to the scenario, as well as creative uses of the oscillator controls within each preset, this gives quite a large palette of fairly easily programmed change options to work with.

So, for me, notes are simply used for timed Preset and Bank changes, and the fade to next function (set per Preset) can optionally give me timed fades between certain elements. Then when I need perhaps one (or a few) specific elements to have precise changes apart from the entire Preset, I will send those control changes via MIDI, -after or in-between the various Preset changes (which take precedence).

Does that help, or do you have to use note values as a control element for some reason? -Jn-
Dave Brown [admin]
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by Dave Brown [admin] »

As JnTuneTech said - use MIDI CC messages for smooth transitions instead of MIDI Notes. You can also send NRPN messages for even smoother transitions (if Ableton supports them, I'm not sure).

Designing an entire show by controlling DMXIS faders via MIDI does give you absolute control - you can design any effect you need. However, this method can be very difficult to maintain long-term. If you want to add a new fixture to your lighting rig, you need to edit every single song in your library, to add X new channels. If you want to swap out an old fixture for a more powerful one, and the new fixture has different channels - again, you need to edit every single song in your library.

This is really where the power of banks & presets lies. It's much quicker to edit a bunch of useful presets that are reused many times across lots of songs.

I recommend you use banks & presets to design the majority of your show, with just a sprinkling of special effects where necessary using the MIDI method.
mts17116 wrote:Hi, I'm new as well. I've put DMXIX FX in a "return" channel and can map any of the DMX channels to midi by creating a midi instrument and building Note ON events. I can manage the length of time of each event by increasing the note type (half note has double the length of time on as a quarter, for instance)

BUT I'd like to be able to modulate the level within that note, for example say I assign at "note on" a velocity of 90 and at "note off" a value of 45. Any idea how to accomplish this? I'd like to shift colors smoothly by changing RGB (A,W,UV !!!) ratios dynamically. I understand I could send a ton of very short notes together and set different velocities for each, but this seems clunky.

BTW , Are there other midi parameters that can be automated to do this smoothly?
(Actually, it would be cool to know if DMXIS responds/or not to any standard midi messages? Pitchbend comes to mind :D )

Any and all advice is welcome as I'm just starting to build the light show and so restarting with a new approach is not too time consuming.

Thanks in advance!

Mike
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Author of Show Buddy Setlist | Show Buddy Active | ArtNetMon
mts17116
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by mts17116 »

Thanks guys! Just for fun i mapped everything last night (i only have ten fixtures) and played with running in clips. I think it ends up being a lot the same as triggering presets but exactly controls with the beat. I set floods and spots on different Midi channels so i can set up clips for each. Then building up a song is really just mixing and matching clips. Good point on adding or changing fixtures, but thankfully i don't really intend on adding more spots or floods for the show at this point. Though I'm thinking about adding movers.

Beta version of DMXIS allows stacked bank and preset changes... could i build a bank for each fixture and use presets to build a color pallet? (or would that be WAY too many stacked changes to execute!?! )

One of my goals is to be able to "play" the lights as well as following a pre programmed show. I'll keep posting as i work through.

Thanks again

Mike
Davezhear
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by Davezhear »

Presets can be stacked but I don't think banks can.
mts17116
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by mts17116 »

AH an important distinction! kk Thanks!
gsc1ugs
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Re: Fade in and outs using midi with ableton and dmxis

Post by gsc1ugs »

Ive tried the basic fade to next it works but bit jumpy, not really getting that flash then fade effect im looking for
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