MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Chat relating to ENTTEC D-PRO lighting control software.
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John Sheehan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:02 am

MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by John Sheehan » Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:59 am

As a live musician, I have successfully used both the Morningstar MC8 and the RJM GT/16 MIDI footswitch controllers with much success. It takes some time to configure. I personally prefer the Morningstar software GUI better than the RJM. I also use BandHelper on Android to manage my setlist and subsequent selection of songs in the repertoire

I also use a 24" touchscreen to control my show (audio mixing and lighting). At present, I'll set a pre configured scene with the touch screen for each song and then during the songs use the MIDI footswitch to introduce effects such a different speed Strobes, Blinders, Blackout, Spots etc...

The only thing I am still struggling with is invoking a "cancel current preset/scene/cuelist" and "set new preset/scene/cuelist" with a MIDI instruction at song change. I still have to operate this manually on the touchscreen by deselecting the current preset/scene/cuelist and then selecting the new one rather than using a foot switch or other MIDI device to change scenes.

If anyone has suggestions that might assist resolving this, I'd love to hear from them.

John

John Sheehan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:02 am

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by John Sheehan » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:07 am

Just to add, what I would like to be able to do is invoke a global "off" whilst selecting a new cue/preset etc.. This way, all active cues will be switched off and a new one can be selected. If I have a global "off" on DPro, my (any) MIDI Device won't have to be cue specific to any preceding preset. This will save a lot of programming especially if the songs in the setlist are shuffled about. Hope that makes sense.

John Sheehan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:02 am

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by John Sheehan » Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:36 am

From the manual: I might give this a try, sounds like the global all off option answer!

ADDING RADIO GROUPS
Sometimes you will want buttons to behave in a "radio box" manner - that is, only one button can
be active at any time. For example, you might have "Red", "Yellow" and "Green" cues, which
control the colour of your whole rig. You don't really want to MIX these cues, so the radio box is
the answer:
1. Click the config button (gear icon) to enter config mode. The Properties window
appears.
2. Click the “Red”, “Green” and Yellow” buttons (using shift key)
3. Use the +/- buttons to set this to "Radio group : 1"
4. Click the config button (gear icon) to exit config mode

Now you will see all 3 buttons highlighted in a different colour (to indicate that they are a radio
group). When you switch on any button in the group, all others will switch off, with any fade in/out
times providing a nice smooth crossfade.

RADIO GROUP “ROUND ROBIN” BUTTONS
If you setup an identical trigger on every button in a radio group, then you can automatically
advance from one button to the next using that trigger.

For example, say you are using D-Pro to run lighting for a live band, and you have one cuelist with
a backing track for each song. You can load those songs onto Show Control buttons, then set
them all to belong to the same radio group, and set them all up to trigger from a MIDI Note on a
keyboard. Now, you can advance through the set simply by bumping the MIDI Note at the end of
each song. And with easy drag/drop of buttons in the Show Control window, you can quickly
change the order of the “set”.

kevinmpeters
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:36 pm

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by kevinmpeters » Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:18 pm

The radio button thing will do what you are looking for. The only problem is if you send the midi CC to start the same cue it will stop it. You can create multiple instances of the button (we have 3 for each) and it will just rotate between them that way, until you hit it more times than you have buttons for. This is a problem if you have say 3 generic cues, and you create 3 buttons for each cue, for example the "red cue", if you send a midi instruction to start red 4 times in a row (say 4 songs in a row use that cue) it will black out instead of toggling back to the first button. I've requested a fix in this behavior and a number of other things related but haven't gotten any response from support at Entec or Dave - although to give credit, he is the one who suggested multiple buttons per cue so it was less of an issue.

John Sheehan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:02 am

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by John Sheehan » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:42 am

Thanks Kevin. Its worth playing around with it. So you are saying that each button must have the same CC to be in a radio group?

I also notice you are using Bandhelper as I do! Would it be worth copying enough cues and renaming those individually for each song? That way you can link the cue specifically to its respective song? Just a thought...

kevinmpeters
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:36 pm

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by kevinmpeters » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:20 pm

For clarity - no you don't need a radio group per CC/button - just put everything into 1 radio group, that way you never have 2 cues going at once (unless that is desirable for how you built your show). High level we have 4 generic cues and then a bunch of song specific ones.
the generics are:
RGB
GBP
RBP
GBR

I created 3 buttons per cue, then all cue buttons for everything are in one radio group. That way I can never have 2 cues running at once, and if I send the same CC twice it will just move to next button for that cue(say we go to start a song and have to pause for whatever reason we need to stop our click and all our other midi and then restart it). This only falls down if I have too many songs in a row using the same cue, which does happen occasionally. But when that happens we just retrigger the start of the song with BH and that restarts everything - it's very obvious when that happens as it blacks out. I could have say 5 or 6 copies of each button and solve that as well, I just got lazy and stopped at 3.

We use Bandhelper for everything onstage basically, it plays clicks and sequences, selects the patches on our fractals, triggers lighting starts, displays lyrics and notes at each band position, and even changes midi during songs for patch changes on the fractals. Obviously we use it to build setlists as well, and we even use their finance and scheduling modules. Their support is awesome, so it's been a great way to run everything. The level of support we get from BandHelper for such little cost in comparison to everything else we use is amazing. The fractal stuff is obviously well supported as well.

John Sheehan
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:02 am

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by John Sheehan » Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:23 pm

Great stuff Kevin. Bandhelper is awesome I agree. Arlo is second to none with support.

BH controls ENTTEC USB Pro MKII, DMX, Voicelive Touch, Kemper, Source Audio C4, Morningstar MC8, Roland SPD-SX & TD30 to name a few.

MIDI is indeed awesome. Our old keyboard player (software engineer) from many moons ago ended up moving to Roland and developing their EDIROL line of products. Back then we were the only other band besides Icehouse using a QX1 sequencer. Its come a long way since then!

I appreciate your input :)

kevinmpeters
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:36 pm

Re: MIDI Device invoking preset/scene/cuelist changes

Post by kevinmpeters » Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:37 pm

I'm curious how you manage that many midi devices from a signal flow point of view? Are you jumping from device to device with the hardware thru, or doing something different? We have seen issues with hardware splitters. Obviously this is off topic here, if you want to ping me on email to chat about any of this stuff my email is my username on here at gmail.

-Kevin

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